It will be a little while before the ALPY-600 is operational. I am using RSpec exclusively at the moment and the Instrument Response curve is all set.
In addition to the ALPY the Guider and calibration modules are on the way. I have installed Demetria for the ALPY.
I would be interested to know if I can contribute?
Thanks
Steve
I have a lot to learning, help would be appreciated. I would be happy to be a fly on the wall.
thanks
Steve - HSTG
A couple of questions for you: Will you be participating in the monthly spectroscopy group sessions? These are conducted on the 2nd Tuesday of the month. More info on the sticky thread at the top of this forum and on the Spectroscopy Observing Section page. Have you read the AAVSO's "Introduction to Spectroscopy" manual? It has a lot of information on spectroscopy that is focused less on theory and more on application. In it is information on the techniques that you need to understand in order to generate quality spectra.
I have an Alpy 600 and have been working at understanding the ins and outs of spectroscopy for a while now, but like you, am still learning, so be patient in the learning process. I have not engaged in any campaigns yet, instead working on independent projects to develop my skills. Recently I started working on the Astronomical League's Spectroscopy Observing program and have found that this structured program is a good way to not only get practice on getting good spectra, but also in basic analysis of the information contained with them (i.e. spectral line identification). I have also been getting spectra of the recurrent nova T CrB every week or so as we are now in the time window of its anticipated eruption. For me an advantage of getting regular spectra of the same object is that I can compare these spectra to one another to check my consistency of processing. One thing I find important is to pay attention to is the correction of the spectrum for the effects of atmosphere and instrument response - especially for spectra taken a low elevation angles such as my recent T CrB spectra. This and other topics are discussed at the monthly meetings, so I recommend you attend those.
Scott
I am looking forward to Tuesday monthly meeting. I have not read AAVSO's Spectroscopy guide yet, I will download and read AAVSO's "Introduction to Spectroscopy" manual today.
Presently reading Successfully Starting in Astronomical Spectroscopy by Francois Cochard.
T Crb is not in a good location for me until January 2024, There's a mountain to the West of the observatory. But this is the
precise type of event that I want to partake.
I'm Limited to the StarAnalyser-200 presently, the ALPY600 is here but awaiting a C14 reducer and a PrecisePart adapter for the other OTA.
I will check out the Astronomical League's Spectroscopy Observing program.
Last night I capture spectra of extended object NGC7662 (Blue Snowball planetary nebula), Type A8Vn Alderamin and a type B star
whose ID I forgot to jot down. Start to logging everything is on my todo list.
Thank you very much!
Steve - HSTG
T CrB is low in the western evening sky now, so you may have to wait a few months and pick it up in the early morning sky. Pre-eruption monitoring of this object is important to establish a baseline for which post eruption spectra can be compared. On the Spectroscopy Observing Section page is a list of suggested objects for obtaining spectra, so take a look at that as well.
For logging, I generated a log sheet that I fill out during my observing runs. I found that I was being a bit sloppy in my notebook - sometimes not recording information that I needed later during processing, so I created a form that I fill out instead. This keeps me consistent in recording information at the time of the observation, such as which reference star I selected for each target and the elevation angles of the target and reference. Then when I'm doing the processing I don't use the wrong reference star to construct the instrument response curve (for example).
Again, its all about developing good techniques for consistently producing quality spectra, so take your time in reviewing the available materials, participating in the group meetings, posting questions in this forum, and, most importantly, checking your results for quality and consistency. When you've established your technical baseline for generating quality spectra you can then delve into the process of extracting information from the spectral signature to learn about the physical processes in play.
Scott
Of particular interst was the - Astronomical League's Spectroscopy Observing program - https://www.astroleague.org/spectroscopy-observing-program/
I will join today and investigate the necessary requirements for submitting data.
Steve
Steve,
The AL Spectroscopy Observing Program has as a prerequisite completion of the Stellar Evolution Observing Program, so you would have to complete that program first. Also, If you a member of an astronomy club, you may already be a member of the AL. Check with your club membership to see if it is an AL affiliated club. There is a list on the AL website, but it does not appear to be working.
They set the bar too high for me. At 70+ y.o. the nights of sitting at the eyepiece when it's below freezing are over.
Steve
This is a quote from the prerequisite requirements....
A total of 100 objects must be observed to complete this Observing Program. A log sheet that meets the requirements of this Observing Program is at the end of the on-line manual. The observations must be made in the context of completing this Observing Program; Objects that you have already observed must be observed again.
The bolded statement "Objects that you have already observed must be observed again" refers to the fact that objects observed as part of fufilling another AL observing program cannot be reused for this one. Still, 100 objects is a lot, especially in cold weather, but that is the price of admission to participate in the AL Spectroscopy observing program. Personal choice here whether to go this route or not.
Hello all,
I'm also interested to know if I could eventually contribute with an SA200 grating + OSC Astrocam (ASI533MC Pro). I'm considering buying the mono version as well, so please let me know if with that piece of kit it could work.
Thanks,
Lucas.
I don't have any…
Lucas,
I don't have any experience with your equipment set up, so take my comments with a grain of salt. The camera you are currently using I believe is a color video camera suitable as a planetary camera or a guide camera. Unless it can take long exposures you may find it limiting for generating spectra with your SA200 grating. Not saying you can't, just that you may be limited to brighter stars. And a color camera is unnecessary, and perhaps undesirable, I think, as a spectral imaging camera since the color filter layers in the camera itself are modifying the spectral signal in a way you don't want. Better I think to go with a monochrome camera with ability to integrate exposures over tens to hundreds of seconds and provide a consistent signal response across all pixels. I use an ATIK 460EX with my Alpy 600 slit spectrograph and am able to set the integration time up to 600 seconds - like what I need for T CrB (being around magnitude 10). Before you take advise from me or anyone else, go out and try it for yourself. Experiment and see what results you get using your ASI533MC Pro camera before you spend money on something else.
My camera is…
Hello Scott,
My camera is indeed a color camera, and I use it to make "pretty pictures" of deep space objects. I have been doing some tests with it + the SA200 and already know that the spectra produced by that combination has some inaccuracies because of the bayer matrix (it creates some dips on the spectrum that are not real).
So with all that, I was wondering if I could ever produce spectra with enough quality for science contributions. I'm thinking about getting a mono camera for a while now (also for astro photography) and this might be the last push I need to get into that rabbit hole :), but if there're people submitting good quality data with a color camera, I might hold off a little more.
Best,
Lucas.
Lucas,
Short answer is "I don't know". Hopefully someone with experience in obtaining spectra with a color camera can weigh in.
Scott
Lucas,
As you noted, the overlapping filter responses cause difficulties. It would certainly be possible to at least use color spectra to gain experience obtaining & reducing spectra. Another possibility that I don't know whether anyone has tried, would be to separate the three color layers into three images covering different wavelength ranges, then processing each separately (essentially treating them similarly to a 3 order echelle spectrum), each with its corresponding instrument response.
Wayne
Hi Wayne,
That is a really interesting idea. I am not familiar with the echelle spectrum but I’ll look for information about it.
Also, I wonder if I could create something similar to an instrument response correction for just this issue by comparing to a perfectly white synthesized star, for example pointing to a white image on a LED display or some similar method? I haven’t yet found any information about this so maybe it cannot be done, what do you think?
Best,
Lucas
You can use colour cameras but there are a number of disadvantages that make mono cameras far superior for spectroscopy particularly if you are wanting scientific accuracy
1. Overlapping responses of the three channels. This has been touched on and makes flux calibration (the fitting of the response curve) more difficult, particularly at very low resolutions where the humps and dips due to the overlaps can be confused with actual spectral features.
Additionally the response of each channel is not limited to specific spectral regions. Each of the filters has leaks in other regions of the spectrum and all become transparent in the IR so the suggestion of taking each channel separately and then combining them rather like an echelle does not work.
2. The effective pixel size of colour cameras is 2x that of a mono camera. You need to consider this if you are potentially undersampled
3. The sensitivity of the colour camera is much lower because not all pixels are sensitive at any particular wavelength. (2x lower in the green and 4x lower in the red and blue) also because there are effectively gaps in the image where the non sensitive pixels are there is a greater risk of artifacts like small scale ripples in the spectrum
Cheers
Robin
Note, although the following suggestion for using colour cameras does not work with slitless systems like the Star Analyser it should for slit spectrograph like the ALPY.
I have heard people suggest you should not bother with flats for spectroscopy but done well they are in fact your friend if you have any variations in the instrument response because by doing a flat correction you are effectively replacing the instrument response with the spectrum of the lamp which for a halogen lamp is nice and smooth. This is good at getting rid of ripples typically found in mono camera responses for example and although I have never used a colour camera with a slit spectrograph, it should also remove the humps and bumps caused by the overlapping filter responses. There is more about flats in my flux calibration document.
Cheers
Robin
Hi Robin,
Thanks for your input, it’s super informative. So basically I should conclude that using the SA200 with a color sensor is a good training tool but not enough if my end goal is being able to get scientifically accurate data. Would that be a correct assessment?
Best,
Lucas
Hi Lucas,
Yes, I would say that is true. Although there some niche areas where the Star Analyser can perhaps do real science and some people have included it in more capable but more complex arrangements, I developed it mainly as a way for users to get a taste of what spectroscopy is about and some hands on experience before deciding whether to spend what unfortunately is serious money on a commercial spectrograph.
There are some interesting self assembly routes though for those that way inclined, for example Christian Buil's SolEx StarEx project which can effectively be bought as a kit of 3D printed parts, and a kit of optics
http://www.astrosurf.com/solex/sol-ex-stars-en.html
Cheers
Robin
Calibrating spectra in (relative) flux so you end up with the spectrum as measured at the top of our atmosphere involves more than just correcting for the response of the instrument. David Boyd's overview of the process of converting raw data into a fully calibrated spectrum " Scientific Analysis of Amateur Spectra" at the top of this page gives a good overview
https://britastro.org/section_information_/equipment-and-techniques-section-overview/spectroscopy
and because this comes up so frequently when supporting people on various forums I wrote this piece describing the practical aspects of the process I use in detail with low resolution spectrographs like the Star Analyser and the ALPY which you might find useful.
http://www.threehillsobservatory.co.uk/astro/Relative_flux_calibration_20221222.pdf
Cheers
Robin
https://www.astrobin.com/zy6gi2/